5 thoughts on “Empirical Claims in Marx – Sam Zirock”
Empirical Claims
I really love the way you elaborated on how Marx responded to the socialism theory by saying that Marx disagrees with the Communist Manifesto. You even supported your statement by elaborating that he strongly disagrees with the critiques of his points where he says that ignoring them is the best thing to do because they hold no weight. Some of the Communist Manifesto arguments support Marx’s claims, but others left room for a valid explanation of how specific theories and conclusions came to be. Marx believes that the best decision was to leave some of those empirical claims for future communists who would explore them using his ideas as their foundation. You did a great job showing that you understand the policies Marx was advocating. You point out what you believe is the most important policy Marx suggests is the abolition of private property ownership. You also did a great job of explaining this empirical claim pointing it out by saying that communism does not deprive man of the power to own personal property. What Marx means is that no individual will be allowed to hold the means of production defined in capitalism or be in a position to control and drive economic inequalities.
I also love your summary of Marx’s policies by writing that he also proposes credit centralization by the national bank and free education for all the children attending public schools. I also love another empirical claim of Marx when you pointed out that the government should incorporate heavy income taxes to the ruling class and ban the right to inherit wealth. Marx is certain of capitalism development which is why he advocates for communism. His theories leave room for questions like how certain he is that the government’s adoption of communism will not result in them enriching themselves and abusing power.
I agree, I found Marx’s claims compelling but evidence to be a bit lacking. His theory is strong but it is mostly descriptive. As you point out, this necessitates questions about how a truly classless society will not only emerge but also how it would function. It also raises the question of a time horizon – when can we expect to see a communist revolution, is late-stage capitalism the essential requisite? And as you mention, is revolution the only way, or could states progressively become more communist?
Yes. Marx’s fundamental assumptions on human behavior seem to be quite charitable, but I would say overall in line with our understanding of basic human rights and fulfillment of those needs. So, I would be interested in learning more about how a proletarian state might regulate the provision of these.
Overall, I tend to agree with your assertion that Marx’s writings tend to be grounded in theory and description more than making empirical claims, but this is because a Communist Revolution had never occurred anywhere in the world. I would slightly disagree with the notion that Marx doesn’t take any strong empirical stance, because Chapter III is devoted to reviewing literature on socialism and Communism. Marx’s arguments definitely draw from the history and literature of countries like France, Germany, and the United Kingdom to differentiate the different varieties of socialism (Petty-Bourgeoise, Feudal Socialism, German “True” Socialism, etc.). These are mentioned in another wiki, but it would have been nice to see these concepts fleshed out a little more to gain a deeper understanding of the concepts. You do a great job of critiquing that Marx doesn’t offer a vision of what his ideas would look like in practice. I absolutely agree this is one of the weaker parts of the Manifesto, as the reader is only left with a vague vision of what society would look life after the revolution. Well done!
It is a very complete description of Marx most important claims. I agree that Marx’s claims are theoretical supported but they lack of empirical evidence. Historically, we have seen how communist revolutions have led to authoritarian governments. It is also interesting to see how the ten steps from socialism to communism outlined by Marx lack empirical evidence and remain only descriptive.
Empirical Claims
I really love the way you elaborated on how Marx responded to the socialism theory by saying that Marx disagrees with the Communist Manifesto. You even supported your statement by elaborating that he strongly disagrees with the critiques of his points where he says that ignoring them is the best thing to do because they hold no weight. Some of the Communist Manifesto arguments support Marx’s claims, but others left room for a valid explanation of how specific theories and conclusions came to be. Marx believes that the best decision was to leave some of those empirical claims for future communists who would explore them using his ideas as their foundation. You did a great job showing that you understand the policies Marx was advocating. You point out what you believe is the most important policy Marx suggests is the abolition of private property ownership. You also did a great job of explaining this empirical claim pointing it out by saying that communism does not deprive man of the power to own personal property. What Marx means is that no individual will be allowed to hold the means of production defined in capitalism or be in a position to control and drive economic inequalities.
I also love your summary of Marx’s policies by writing that he also proposes credit centralization by the national bank and free education for all the children attending public schools. I also love another empirical claim of Marx when you pointed out that the government should incorporate heavy income taxes to the ruling class and ban the right to inherit wealth. Marx is certain of capitalism development which is why he advocates for communism. His theories leave room for questions like how certain he is that the government’s adoption of communism will not result in them enriching themselves and abusing power.
I agree, I found Marx’s claims compelling but evidence to be a bit lacking. His theory is strong but it is mostly descriptive. As you point out, this necessitates questions about how a truly classless society will not only emerge but also how it would function. It also raises the question of a time horizon – when can we expect to see a communist revolution, is late-stage capitalism the essential requisite? And as you mention, is revolution the only way, or could states progressively become more communist?
Yes. Marx’s fundamental assumptions on human behavior seem to be quite charitable, but I would say overall in line with our understanding of basic human rights and fulfillment of those needs. So, I would be interested in learning more about how a proletarian state might regulate the provision of these.
Overall, I tend to agree with your assertion that Marx’s writings tend to be grounded in theory and description more than making empirical claims, but this is because a Communist Revolution had never occurred anywhere in the world. I would slightly disagree with the notion that Marx doesn’t take any strong empirical stance, because Chapter III is devoted to reviewing literature on socialism and Communism. Marx’s arguments definitely draw from the history and literature of countries like France, Germany, and the United Kingdom to differentiate the different varieties of socialism (Petty-Bourgeoise, Feudal Socialism, German “True” Socialism, etc.). These are mentioned in another wiki, but it would have been nice to see these concepts fleshed out a little more to gain a deeper understanding of the concepts. You do a great job of critiquing that Marx doesn’t offer a vision of what his ideas would look like in practice. I absolutely agree this is one of the weaker parts of the Manifesto, as the reader is only left with a vague vision of what society would look life after the revolution. Well done!
It is a very complete description of Marx most important claims. I agree that Marx’s claims are theoretical supported but they lack of empirical evidence. Historically, we have seen how communist revolutions have led to authoritarian governments. It is also interesting to see how the ten steps from socialism to communism outlined by Marx lack empirical evidence and remain only descriptive.
Very insightful discussion!